Welcome to GoutPal’s Gout Forum. Anyone can post here – there is no need to register, though I can’t see why you wouldn’t all you need to do is register.
If you want to find answers quickly, please try this search:
… Or Post & Learn Even More
“Every time you respond to someone here, more people see the helpfulness, and they are encouraged to contribute. First with questions, but then with advice and support. It is a wonderful thing to see, and be part of. The diversity of views is very special, and I feel that this is only achievable through continuing natural growth”
This is the kind of spirit unique only to Gout Pal Interactive!
I had been suffering from heal pains, toe pains for a few years and had seen doctors who prescribed painkillers which provided only temporary relief for the pain. They were telling me I was suffering from “bunion”, “bursitis”, etc…. I was referred to specialists but my “pains” still persisted. In fact, the pains came on more frequently – perhaps due to my diet. I used to be a very active person but, the gout pain changed my life and made mea miserable wreck. I was desperate. But, I was not just going to give up so easily. So, I tried whatever was recommended – apple cider vinegar, cherry juice, ……..etc. Finally, I discovered a wonderful relief for my horrible gout pains – “Black Beans”. It really worked like “magic”. Beans are widely known to cause gout, and yet black beans are doing the opposite.
After having gone through it, I do know the agony and misery of suffering from gout pains. Therefore, I would like to share this wonderful gout relief with the hope that it would bring joy and happiness to all gout sufferers.It may sound unbelievable, but it is true that the simple black beans does have incredibly effect in relieving gout pain.
It is simple!!!Boil about 150gm of black beans in 2 litres of water in slow fire for about 1 ½ hrs.Discard the beans and drink only the broth, which is purplish black in colour, due to the of the skin.For a start, gulp down ½ litres of the broth. By the time you finish all the broth (within the day) you will be amazed by it’s effectiveness.
I recommended black beans to two of my relatives who had been suffering from gout for years and both are absolutely happy with the results. We are now taking black bean broth regularly on a weekly basis.
2:28 am February 14, 2009
metamorph
Tophi Terror
SEA
posts 213
2
One very important point about black beans is that it is an effective relief for severe gout pains but not a cure for gout”.Prevention is always better than cure! The best way to avoid having gout attacks is still to abstain from too much purine-rich food – food that will increase the uric acid in our blood. These are already discussed in detail in this “gout forum”.
Recent research shows that black beans are rich in antioxidant compounds, in particular anthocyanins, found in the skin of black beans. In the course of inflammation, enzymes damage connective tissue in capillaries, causing blood to leak into surrounding tissues. Oxidants are released and further damage blood-vessel walls. Anthocyanins protect in several ways. First, they neutralize enzymes that destroy connective tissue. Second, their antioxidant capacity prevents oxidants from damaging connective tissue. Finally, they repair damaged proteins in the blood-vessel walls. Animal experiments have shown that supplementation with anthocyanins effectively prevents inflammation and subsequent blood-vessel damage.
I know that black cherry juice, etc (which all contain anthocyanins) can eliminate uric acid from the blood and is much more effective than some commonly prescribed gout medication which merely stops the production of more uric acid in the liver. But they can also be very damaging to the liver, and liver damage is the origin of gout in the first place in many people (or kidney damage in others).
From personal experience,my gout pains did come back every now and then when I became complacent and pampered myself with lots of my “favourite food” – red meat, mussles, and other purine-rich food.But, I am not too worried now. Whenever, I feel the “pain” coming on, I would quickly make some black bean broth and gulp them down.Within hours I could feel the pain diminishing as quickly as it came.
This amazing black bean remedy takes only a few hours to eliminate the crystals from the joints, but the damage to the joints may take up to two days to heal.It would be good to prepare some of this black bean broth and freeze it in the fridge just in case we need it in another sudden gout attack.Because of its efficacies and other health benefits we could also drink it regularly as a beverage. Black beans are cheap and easily available.I have tried varying proportions of black beans and water; and boiling time.So far, 1.5gm of black beans in 2 litres of water and boiling it in slow fire for at least 1½hour gave me the best result.Drink the broth and discard the beans.
2:32 am February 14, 2009
metamorph
Tophi Terror
SEA
posts 213
3
Correction - 1.5gm of black beans should be 150gm. My apologies for the error.
10:50 am February 17, 2009
metamorph
Tophi Terror
SEA
posts 213
4
Black bean broth is the most wonderful thing I have found for my gout problems. My life is so much better without having to suffer and bear with those excruciating gout pains.
So far, those people very close to me had tried and it worked for them too.That’s why I was very eager to share it with as many others as possible who are going through the same agony and torture of gout pains.
I can’t help wondering just how many of those who viewed this post had tried black bean broth to relief their gout pains, and whether it is effective for them too. I wish to reiterate that it is a very fast and effective “relief” for severe pains and inflammation caused by gout, but not a “cure” for gout.
If you have tried “black bean broth” do share with us whether it had worked for you too.Even if it had not work for you, your honest feedback will certainly be appreciated.
11:09 pm February 27, 2009
metamorph
Tophi Terror
SEA
posts 213
5
I do understand that many people are having reservations about black bean for gout pains because all beans are known to cause gouts.
At first I had my reservations too. I did my own research and read up a lot more about black beans, anthocyanins, etc. It was only when I was quite sure that black bean broth will not do me any harm and with due consideration of its other numerous health benefits that I decided to give it a try. I am very glad I did!!
I am 64 now and my health is almost perfect. I said “almost” because I do have an occasional, headache, flu, and other minor illnesses, etc but I have no major ailments. Therefore, I am not on any drugs or long term medications. In fact, I am averse to drugs because of their known negative side effects. They could also “mess up” the normal functioning of our body, e.g. kidney, liver, heart……etc. and cause other serious problems.
I am a very active person and I take good care of my health the “NATURAL” way – through healthy living such as exercises, healthy past times, martial arts and meditation.I have one weakness though, and that is I enjoy “good food”, which happen to be high in purine. Perhaps, that’s how I gout my attacks.I was desperate when I was afflicted by gout attacks because it disrupted my life terribly.
Now I am still as fit as a fiddle. The occasional gout attacks (due to my love for “good food” which I am still unable to resist completely) do not worry me much because I have black beans on standby.In fact, I am able to keep the gout attacks at bay by taking black bean broth regularly – once a week.I drink only the broth and discard all the beans.
6:37 am March 2, 2009
metamorph
Tophi Terror
SEA
posts 213
6
My house manager (wife), who prepared the bbb just told me that she used 200gm (approx. 7 oz) of black beans not 150gm as I had mentioned earlier. She also suggested using a TIMER, otherwise we could forget and end up with burnt beans. If you have any further clarifications or suggestions please feel free to do so.
9:08 pm March 4, 2009
metamorph
Tophi Terror
SEA
posts 213
7
I halted another gout attack on its track with bbb!!!!
Last weekend, I had several sumptuous meals with lots of meat. The following Monday I could feel the discomfort around my right big toe setting in. I was not too worried because my wife got my dose of bbb ready.
The discomfort intensified and I felt the pain creeping in. I had one “big gulp” (about16 oz).Even as I had finished my “big gulp” the area around my right big toe was swelling and turning red. The pain was getting worse. I suppose, the bbb needed some time to get into my blood stream to do its “job”.After about an hour later I took another “gulp”.Slowly but surely, I could feel the pain, followed by the swelling diminishing.5 hours later my big toe was back to normal, though the discomfort was still felt. I had a good night’s sleep.
2:44 pm March 5, 2009
zip2play
Member
posts 1213
8
metamorph,
What kind of uric acid numbers are you running?
The reason that I ask is that it seems that you might be too close to the cusp of gout attacks and thus suffereing some of the OTHER problems a high uric acid presents like arterial damage. Have you ever done or considered allopurinol (forgive me if you said earlier and I forgot!) perhaps just STOPPING incipient gout attacks not might be treatment enough.
A similar situation might be be mine: I KNOW I can stop an attack the instant it starts with colchicine but I choose to keep a buffer so an attack never really gets started.
1:07 am March 6, 2009
metamorph
Tophi Terror
SEA
posts 213
9
Hi Zip,
Thanks for your concern.
My uric acid number is always within the acceptable level – below 6. My health is absolutely fine as I do not suffer from any serious ailments and therefore not on any long term medication.
When my gout attacks first started a few years ago the doc. I consulted told me it was “bunion”. I disagreed with him but he still insisted it was. Anyway, he prescribed NSAID to relieve the pain and it did work. A couple of months later, I had another gout attack toe and heel pains together. Same prescription of NSAID, and this time he suggested referring me to the Orthopaedic Specialist.
I visited the Orthopaedic Specialist the next day. He looked at my big toe and asked me about my heel pain and then prescribed Bengay, a pain relieving cream. He believed that my heel pain was caused “heel spurs” due to ill-fitting shoes, so he referred me to the podiatrist in the same hospital. Despite all the fuss, my toes and heel were none the better. Every now and then the same problems came back on and off.
I was frustrated and fed up. I gave up on the doctors who did not seem to have any inkling about “gout”. So, I resorted to finding ways to heal myself. I surfed the web and read up alot about almost everything about leg pains, toe pains, heel pains, etc………. I tried many things – orthotics, which is about proper supports for foot arches, and it helped to solve my heel pain problem; cider vinegar, for my painful toes, but my stomach could not take too much acid. Finally, I found black bean broth and was amazed how fast it relieved me of my pains and swellings. Whenever, my gout attacks recurred bbb prevented them from getting worse.
From close monitoring and reflections I realised that it was my “unhealth meat diet” that caused my gout attacks. I tried to avoid taking too much meat but to no avail as the temptation of those delicious and mouth watering dishes of roast, grilled, broiled meat, were too hard to resist. With bbb I am able to enjoy my favourite “food”. But now I do so in moderation.
As I had mentioned before, bbb is a very effect relief for gout pains but not a cure for gout.
3:00 am March 7, 2009
Gary S
Guest
10
I had my first gout attack on Dec 31, 08. It lasted about 5 weeks during which I hobbled around all the time and was in considerable pain. I took Indomethacin as prescribed by a doctor and drank Dark Cherry Juice. I don't like to take unnecessary medication so I took it off and on as needed which may be why the attack lasted so long. I got my second attack on Feb 1st. I felt it start to come on about three days before it hit. I found this post and decided to give BBB a try so Wed night I made some and drank it over the next couple of hours. The next morining my foot still hurt but it wasn't the sharp pain I had before. On Thur I started taking 2 tbls of Apple Cider Vinegar three times a day and I continue to use it. After first using it within a couple of hours I could walk almost normally. So it would seem that the combination of BBB and ACV have helped since I only was hobbling around until I started using it and while my foot is still sore I can walk pretty much normally.
I do have a couple of questions. It seems from reading about BBB the maintenance dose you recommend is to take it once a week. How often can/should I take the BBB during an actual attack? Are there known side affects? Are there side affects from using ACV?
Regarding your PRAL chart. Is it available in electronic format? I assume the goal is to get close to neutral when planning a menu as I assume a very alkaline diet would not be very healthy. Is this correct?
[1.] Regarding your PRAL chart. Is it available in electronic format?
[2.] I assume the goal is to get close to neutral when planning a menu as I assume a very alkaline diet would not be very healthy. Is this correct?
1. I built the PRAL tables from the USDA food analysis tables which are distributed in Microsoft Access (MDB) format. In the past, I've exported these into Excel and MySQL format, but I guess anything is possible. I lost my originals in a computer crash some time ago, but I can quite easily rebuild them. What format do you want?
2. The goal is to alkalize. All this PRAL stuff started when I accepted that alkalyzing through baking soda seemed to have merits, but I did not want to raise my already elevated blood pressure. I do not like to over analyze my lifestyle, so I use the tables as a rough guide rather than calculating and monitoring specific goals. The general goal is to mix acid and alkaline foods in a proportion of approximately 1:3 or 1:4. My view is that this is more about general healthy eating than specifically about gout, though there should be a gouty benefit as uric acid is more soluble in alkaline conditions. There is a strong body of opinion that you cannot change the pH of blood, but at least an alkaline diet should prevent kidney stones. I am far from an expert in these matters, so if you really want to learn more, you should head for http://phbalance.wikispaces.com/ and discuss specific issues at http://acidalkalinediet.com/forum/
Unless replying to specific points in this topic, please start a new topic. See new topic link above, or gout forum guidelines. Current gout status in my profile.
11:33 pm March 7, 2009
metamorph
Tophi Terror
SEA
posts 213
12
Hi Gary,
During an actual gout attack, I usually take two doses of BBB to make sure. That is, I boiled two batches of 200gms (7oz) of black beans. My weekly dose of BBB is taken more leisurely, as I drink smaller amounts each time and enjoy it just like any other beverages. A relative of mine, an architect in Australia, who tried BBB successfully suggested drinking BBB daily as we do with “tea” or “coffee”. He is doing it himself and has not had any relapse of gout attacks again so far.
Black beans have other other efficacies and health benefits. The only caution is that as with all other beans, it is a gout causing food too. That's the reason why we take only the broth and discard the beans. You can read up more about black beans at the following link : http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=2#healthbenefits .
I tried ACV too but my stomach could not take too much of it as it is acidic.
Cheers!!!
2:39 am March 8, 2009
Gary S
Guest
13
1. I built the PRAL tables from the USDA food analysis tables which are distributed in Microsoft Access (MDB) format. In the past, I've exported these into Excel and MySQL format, but I guess anything is possible. I lost my originals in a computer crash some time ago, but I can quite easily rebuild them. What format do you want?
I downloaded the USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference release 21 but in a quick glance I didn't see PRAL numbers. Did I miss them? If so how do I locate them within the data? If they are not there Comma Delimited Text, Excel or Access would do. I don't use Access but I think OpenOffice can open the files and I could then export them to another format….I think. I don't use the database feature of OpenOffice but looking at the help it seems it would work.
Thanks for the information. I will do more research.
Sorry, I was not clear – I added PRAL values to the database. PRAL is a simple calculation that approximates the alkaline or acid affect of digesting food based on mineral content. See my page on PRAL calcultion for more.
I will format the tables in something suitable for Open Office and upload them soon.
Unless replying to specific points in this topic, please start a new topic. See new topic link above, or gout forum guidelines. Current gout status in my profile.
2:45 pm March 9, 2009
zip2play
Member
posts 1213
15
I have always had a LOT of trouble with this acid-base stuff. IT's because my background is heavy training in chemistry.
Thus to my way of thinking, citric acid is an acid and it matters not whether it's in an orange or a lemon. Sugar is NEUTRAL becasue if you dissolve sugar in water the pH is 7.0 and if you soak a steak in water the water will NOT turn acid. This “New Age” stuff has always seemed silly to me and I have always suspected it is for selling stuff under the guise of “chemistry.”
Related but in a slightly different direction: Another effect, for gout, is that uric acid is more soluble in alkaline conditions. Though the pH of the blood is tightly regulated by the body, a tiny percentage increase in alkalinity is probably enough to dissolve slightly more uric acid. (from the PRAL link)
I too have read the above but then have always thought : THEN WHY ARE TOPHI DEPOSITS ALWAYSMONOSODIUM URATE???? If Uric Acid is the insoluble form then we should expect uric acid deposits but such is not the case. A corollary…to remove alkaline tophi wouldn't the most acidifying agent work the best…like a nice hot cup of sulfuric acid first thing in the morning.
So this concept of the most soluble form crystallizing out is most baffling to me.
I also find much of this baffling. Human systems are so complex, as many different biochemical processes fight to maintain healthy levels of so many opposing substances.
My interest in alkalizing diet started from claims that baking soda could help gout. The alkalizing process has little effect on blood pH, as our body goes all out to maintain this around 7.365. There is fluctuation around this range, and 7.4 is logarithmically much higher than 7.3, so uric acid should be more soluble at this level and have a slight improvement on the point at which crystals form.
A lot of “shoulds” and “slights” there, so I guess I cannot claim that alkalizing will slow down uric acid crystals forming, but it might. The significant part for gout sufferers is that alkalizing the body, actually alkalizes the urine. This has a proven improvement in the risk of uric acid stones forming in the kidneys. (references to come when I write this up properly)
The baking soda treatment has a second effect, often referred to as the phenomenon of paradoxical intracellular acidosis. There are studies of sodium bicarbonate (and I think potassium bicarbonate – again references in progress) lowering pH in cells. Proponents of baking soda theory for gout claim that this helps dissolve MSU crystals, though I cannot, as yet, pinpoint specific research. I can find no evidence to suggest that alkalizing through diet produces similar effects.
So, my advice for gout sufferers in terms of alkalizing diets is that it probably improves general health, and it might improve the chance of uric acid crystallizing in the first place.
However, in terms of diet, I believe there are more important things to worry about. One thing that probably is not worth worrying about is purines. The more evidence I see, the less this seems unimportant. I have yet to correlate purine content with iron content, but it seems on first glance that a much more likely explanation for the statistical links between diet and gout is the iron content. In particular, free iron is important. Coffee and dairy products are both effective iron chelators, and both have been linked to lower incidence of gout.
Interestingly, as I struggle to get this topic back on subject, a number of studies have reported increased iron availability of beans when the husks are removed. It appears that the husks, which provide the nutrients for black bean broth are naturally chelating the iron in the bean.
I need to study this a bit more, and try get my head round some of the chemistry, but I'm suddenly seeing things in a whole new way. Either there is much more to this black bean broth than meets the eye, or I'm going down an avenue leading to nowhere.
Unless replying to specific points in this topic, please start a new topic. See new topic link above, or gout forum guidelines. Current gout status in my profile.
8:19 am March 12, 2009
metamorph
Tophi Terror
SEA
posts 213
17
GoutPal.com is indeed a “True Friend” in need.
Here is where I find lots of friendly people sharing and discussing almost everything about gout, – unreservedly and unconditionally. I would accord credit to our Administrator, Keith who sets stringent guidelines, standards and expectations for all who are interested in joining this forum.
I am glad that I have found such a creditable forum website as Gout Pal Interactive. My intention was to “share” and nothing more. Now, I begin to realise that I am also “receiving” – benefitting a great deal from fellow friendly gout pals’ sharing of experiences, knowledge, and their sincere involvement and commitment in discussions related to gout.
Being an Educationist by profession I am not too familiar with medicine and many other medical or biological terms. But now my limited knowledge has been considerably enhanced and enriched, especially with regards to GOUT and many other facts and information related to it. Much of the things I learnt from Gout Pal are profound and they help to widen my perspective and open my mind.
To quote Shakespeare (Merchant of Venice) with a slight slant:–
“The quality of sharing (mercy) is not strained. It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven, it is twice blessed. It blesses him who gives and him who takes………”
That is exactly how I feel about Gout Pal Interactive – by sharing (giving) I am also takingback a lot in return.
And a big “thank you” to zip2play and everyone else who help make this a better place than I ever could alone.
Unless replying to specific points in this topic, please start a new topic. See new topic link above, or gout forum guidelines. Current gout status in my profile.
1:11 pm March 12, 2009
metamorph
Tophi Terror
SEA
posts 213
19
Hi,
Whatever I said above are also from the bottom of my heart!
Old man???? I am 64, zip2play is 65. May I know how old you are?
Just feel old when the feet ache after doing my paper round.
Unless replying to specific points in this topic, please start a new topic. See new topic link above, or gout forum guidelines. Current gout status in my profile.
Login
Register
17
Topic RSS 
Entries (RSS)