GoutPal Interactive

Post edited 8:01 pm – January 8, 2010 by trev

Julia- try to get Black Turtle Beans , if you can. Pm me if you need help.

Trawling throught the reports [about 1/2 way down] Mets' refs. here- I found this:

“The effects of ProCyanidins are reminiscent of those of recognized intestinal secretagogues and suggest that the antinutrient effects of condensed tannins involve stimulation of intestinal secretion at the expense of absorption. The results argue against use of black bean broth or cooking liquor in rehydration media for treatment of secretory diarrhea.”

Looks like an 'anti-nutrient' mechanism that could affect the levels of urate in the gut.

It's known that excretion is the method of UA elimination and may explain some of the benefits in gout attacks.

I think anti- inflammatory effect probably more important though from earlier discussion on BBB.

Mets Quote:

At the moment, I am experimenting on BBB by soaking the beans for a longer period in warm water. I noticed that the soaking water turned very dark in colour. I kept the soaking water by straining it. Then I dehulled the beans – separating the hulls from the beans. After that I added the hulls to the “soaking water ‘ and continued with the boiling and simmering process. Too bad, I was not able to test/compare its effectiveness with my usual “recipe” because I did not have any gout flared up. My last flare-up had already been taken care of by earlier doses of BBB.

Wow! dehulling the beans, That would be very tedious!

I think my experiment of trying to cut down the beans is not working… so my newest batch on the go right now is back up to about the 7 onces… or about 1/2 the 500 grm pack.

What’s interesting too, since going back on the Lasix, both feet are now swollen, I had twinges in left ankle (first time!)… but too, perhaps it is because I cut down the amount of beans?)

Now for Juliana’s benefit, (well others too) I’ve been doing this BBB think for a couple of months at least now, and doing about 3 batches a week…

I take first thing in the morning & then throughout the day… until recently it has kept the swelling & twinges away for the most part…

The other thing I cut out is the low dose apsirin after reading some where here on this forum, it was not good… It is so hard to make decisions sometimes… but I am the opinion Doctors are not always right, or probably so “brain washed” into prescribing pills, they just don’t always know…

I did find “real ginger” at one our “box stores” yesterday, it certainly is stronger than what they grow here… (I thought so… but was not sure. Reference from earlier post).

I have a chopped up root cooking with the lastest batch of beans… I am just waiting for it to cool down… that’s this weeks experiment!

We’ll see how it goes! I’ll keep you posted!

Jim

Post edited 7:37 am – January 9, 2010 by Thaijim

Well Met. I just tried de-husking a few from the last batch… Good for you having the patience to do that… although worse, would be de-husking Cashew Nuts!

My latest brew which is still cooling, with the new stronger ginger is quite tasty… almost like ginger beer!

I did not like the Cinnamon flavor of the last batch, that much….

At least now, my feet have stopped throbbing

As for these ginger types, you say young & old, the ones I have in the garden, are about year old….since I transplanted them, so I’m not sure still if the same kind or not…

ah! I’ve just done a Google search, & yes it’s different, there & hundreds of varieties too… This site has pictures of what “westerners know as ginger” And has a red flower, I think I have one, but it seems very slow growing…

One site said the ginger as used by most people in the west grows to only three feet, my “Thai Ginger” is at least six feet.

As for these ginger types, you say young & old, the ones I have in the garden, are about year old….since I transplanted them, so I’m not sure still if the same kind or not…

ah! I’ve just done a Google search, & yes it’s different, there & hundreds of varieties too… This site has pictures of what “westerners know as ginger” And has a red flower, I think I have one, but it seems very slow growing…

One site said the ginger as used by most people in the west grows to only three feet, my “Thai Ginger” is at least six feet.

Anyway, I’ll see how the new brew goes….
Jim

“Houston we have a problem” AKA Keith! my edited post is not working well here!

Post edited 11:07 am – January 9, 2010 by trev

@ metamorph said:

 Too bad, I was not able to test/compare its effectiveness with my usual “recipe” because I did not have any gout flared up.  My last flare-up had already been taken care of by earlier doses of BBB.

Why not freeze the batch Meta?  I find it helpful  and keep batch covered to cool and pot in an old Sainsburys thick plastic soup bottles with a screw lid ,then freeze down.

Indelible marker pens seems ok in the freezer for noting your trials on the batches.-After all that work ,too!

I will definitely try the all-in-one soakwater next time - the first soak does carry a lot of purple colour and seems a shame to water down the good effects, if that's what is happening here.

On the ginger front- it is highly lauded as a health additive and grated in at the end will save too much evaporation taking place.

Like garlic and hot peppers – a lot of the good effects are carried in volatile oil fractions which get dispersed all to readily in the heat. So don't boil the soups off, either!

PS: This post tacked onto |Jims' earlier one in some strange way- so I've reposted.

Thanks Trev re kind offer to help re Turtle beans – have found online source now. Thanks also to Thaijim re frequency the broth – helpful to know what folk are doing to gain benefits as guidline (ye we stopped the aspirin too & substituted cod liver oil/krill & vit E instead). Also Metamorph – bet its quite therapeutic peeling beans!  Seriously though sounds interesting & shame its so hard to come by these foods more easily.  The idea of using hulls only I suppose would reduce the purine content & made us wonder if swallowing the “sludgy” residue is the actual bean or from the husks.

I wondered what the actual anthocyanin content (hadn't heard of the word last week!) difference is between the Turtle bean (phaseolus vulgaris) and black soya bean (glycine max L. Merr?).  In Wikipaedia it states that the Black Soya bean is the richest source of anthocyanin at 2,000mg per 100gm of beans and elsewhere that the Black turtle bean content is 213 ± 2mgs/100gms.  If I have understood that correctly, that is a huge difference! I ignorantly presumed I would be able to copy & paste the link from my “stickies” but I can't & don't want to loose this.  I will retrace & post seperately.  I don't know how accurate these are. Interestingly, in the Wiki article it states that red grapes come out at 888mg/100gms (found under a google search of “anthocyanin”.

Struggling abit here, heating boiler failed today & hubby limping around on a gouty knee trying to fix things (very cold & snowy!).  We tried Baking powder for the first time as out of beans!

Look forward to reading your so helpful discussions.

To those in the UK Perhaps we could find a way of importing the Black soya beans & distributing them to interested parties in the UK if the content of anthocyanins above is correct? Have no idea of the possibility or logistics of that. Just a thought.

Interesting find on the figures Julia.

Be aware that Soya beans have a hidden extra that your man may not like overmuch- phytoestrogens which can be a tad feminising. I used to use a diet based on Soya and definitely found a drop off in the 'downstairs arena' after a while on it- so I stopped.

Still 10 to1 is a big write down -so maybe it's gout or a  quiet life? ;)

No doubt Meta with his long exp. of BB will come to the rescue on the figures- they do seem rather heavily skewed to what I remember reading. I think I would have flagged up such figures, if found in passing.

One other thing – the alkalising use Soda additive is via Soda BiCarb- not baking powder as you mentioned- which has other additives, as well as BiCarb, in it.

It is recommended to be used with Docs advice in cases of High BP, due to sodium content- but used with a low salt diet seems a good compromise to me, though I've never used it myself,as yet.

My preference would be to use low dosage anyway over some days rather than a blitz during an attack.

“Be aware that Soya beans have a hidden extra that your man may not like overmuch- phytoestrogens which can be a tad feminising. I used to use a diet based on Soya and definitely found a drop off in the 'downstairs arena' after a while on it- so I stopped.

Still 10 to1 is a big write down -so maybe it's gout or a  quiet life? “

Trev,

I read up a little more about “phytoestrogen” in beans, because I was concerned about it's “little extra that man may not like overmuch”.   I began to reflect on my past and present “activity levels” to see if I am affected in any way, and am relieved that the answer in “NO!”.  Whether there was any “hidden effects”? Nothing obvious at the the moment!   

“Thanks Trev! What a dilemma! At the mo tho I suspect he would like a quiet life! Perhaps the Phytoestrogens are in the bean (soya products wouldn't just be the hull would they?)”

Julia,

Dilemma? Yes, but he has to make a choice.  YOu could be correct that at the moment he would “like a quiet life” .  Gout pain is indeed so debilitating that he will not be able to “do anything else”.

You could be right again that phytoestrogens are in the beans, not in the hull. What a great relief for me – that I did not eat any of the beans. When I mentioned that “eating black beans” and “drinking black bean broth” have distinctly different benefits (or setbacks) I did not think about the effects of phytoestrogen in soybeans.  Looks like I will be working harder on getting more from the black bean hull, so that the men can drink the BBB for gout and prepare sumptous black bean salads/tonics for their wives.

Thanks, Trev for bringing our attention to this possible “hidden side effects” to men. 

Interesting fact, you may already be aware of….

Seems that the toxin in beans, Lectin, is disabled (“degraded”) after only 10 minutes of boiling at 100C. More of a risk in slow cookers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C…..n#Toxicity

That would suggest that the soaking water is safe & Metamorph is correct.  I suspect the idea of throwing away the soaking water is recommended for folk who do not cook on a hot enough heat for at least 10 minutes & after all, most people only cook the beans because they plan to eat the beans, not drink the water!

I wonder also if its not necessary to fully cook for the proposed 1 & half hours, although it does extract more anthocyanins from the hulls I suppose – though the colour of the bean doesn't seem to change after a while.  The long cook is to cook the actual bean though I guess.

Yesterday I cooked our remaining 100g of “black beans” after a 3 hour warm soak. I think the warm water did colour up more quickly (was a case of necessity) to get them in before bedtime! Also had red cabbage & blackberries to add the the anthocyanins.

I couldn't help a squeeze on a bean or two to see how “de-hulling” worked – I was right – very therapeutic – had to stop at about 50!

Knee remains very swollen & on crutches but “there is not a pressing pain” – less than would be expected.He reckons its “about a weeks worth” – not able to get up that ladder to fix boiler yet!!

Noted also that there are hundreds of different anthocyanins & one common to the common bean & soya bean is Delphinidin which has loads of health benefits – including lowering blood pressure.  I think has something to do with its angiotensive effects, or competing with angiotensin in the kidneys (spelling may be incorrect) & also claims to reduce cholesterol. They all seem to have their own idividual effects as antioxidants.  My hubby's blood pressure was indeed lower than normal this morning!

Feel such a bore this morning – sorry!

“I wonder also if its not necessary to fully cook for the proposed 1 & half hours, although it does extract more anthocyanins from the hulls I suppose – though the colour of the bean doesn't seem to change after a while.  The long cook is to cook the actual bean though I guess.”

Julia – Although you have just joined us in this discussion not for too long,  you have brought up some quite interesting points. The proposed cooking time of 90 minutes was supposed to be on a simmer (the lowest temperature setting (1) of my hotplate), and that is done after boiling it for about 15 minutes.  It was not based on any specific reason – just that doing so that way worked and it was accepted as such. As we read up more about black beans and and the anthocyanins in the hull we begin to have a better understanding of how BBB works on gout pain and inflammation. As the saying goes, “No venture no gain“, it would be good to try out a shorter simmering time. Maybe 1 hour could be sufficient to extract all the anthocyanins (and calcium, etc.) and not too much of the other nutrients from the beans which may not be good for gout, especially IRON.

I did not dehull the beans one by one. After soaking the beans in warm water, the hulls are soft and are easy to be rubbed off from the beans, with my palms.  It could be a bit messy though, because I had to sort out the hulls from the beans.  Yes, it is  very therapeutic – it needs lots of patience to do so too.

Hope your hubby will be well enough to move around and fix your boiler soon!

Post edited 7:22 pm – January 11, 2010 by trev

In Ireland it is a tradition on St Patrick's day to serve 239 bean soup.

Aye, 239 bean soup, because one more would be two-farty 

Interesting point from Wiki:

Delphinidin, like nearly all other anthocyanidins, is pH sensitive, and changes from blue in basic solution to red in acidic solution.