Gout and Itching

This topic contains 15 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Keith Taylor (GoutPal Admin) Keith Taylor (GoutPal Admin) 4 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #3195
    Avatar of earthmuzk
    earthmuzk
    Participant

    [GoutPal Admin: This gout and itching discussion is now closed. You can read the original discussion below, but the most relevant information is at Which Swollen Joint Has Gout?. That will tell you all about some less well known symptoms of gout, with links for more information. If you still have questions about gout causing itching, or any other aspect of gout, please start a new topic here.


    Gout and itching. I have been itching on my feet and heels for several months. Sometimes all over my body, feet and hands. Recently I had an extreme gout attack. During that time my itching went away and when the attack stopped, the itching came back. I have tried every cream made, including steroids, hydrocortisone and fungal. I am now convinced that the itching is a buildup of uric acid that is huge. I am 62 and for the last few years have been trying to lose wight by eating a high-protein diet. Now, I am trying to following a low protein gout diet, etc. I am beside myself with the itching tho. Just found out about the baking soda and will try that. Any other suggestions. I have tried Atarax, nerve therapy, etc. I think the solution is to rid my body of uric acid. How do I do this naturally?

    #7893
    Avatar of trev
    trev
    Participant

    Welcome to the forum Carol- My experience is that UA reduction can be acheived using natural methods- but only up to so much.

    Changing my BP meds for the combination  of Furosemide and Losaratan has helped as this gives a boost to UA reduction of 1% (or more), according to reliable reports (I think Japan).

    Certainly stopping Bendrofluthiazide was  a good move. No attack for 9 months now! :)

    This is not enough to tip the scales though – so I use Goutcure daily, a herbal mix reputed to be good for everything, and if it is, Good! Also using a probiotic from them.

    The site that supplies this to me Goutcare.co uk also give a fair bit of dietary advice which is helpful, if hard to follow for long. A week is the usual 'full strength' diet run.

    Mainly fruit , veg and water to go with the Goutcure which can be a tad drying I find- but also at the 3 a day -gives me itching!!

    So it may be that the UA going into the blood does this -as urine acid output goes up dramatically.

    Often a reading in am of 5.5- highly acidic. This is night time normal follow up to liver & kidney function.

    So the itching may not be all bad and if you try Goutcure, but be gentle with anything you try- as you may be already helping the situation with your own ministrations.

    You might find a UA monitor helpful if you can't get ready checks on blood and this helps me get on track. Stay below 7mg/dl if you can, though daily variations  are normal.

    If you need meds, then you can read up on here many opinions- but whatever you do, you will need persistence -and a good doctor helps a lot. They generally don't 'get' gout very well ,especially if they don't suffer from it or have direct experience of it, like many lay people, too.

    You will get a SUA test before they will prescribe anything.

    #7886
    Avatar of odo
    odo
    Participant

    The short answer to your question: “how do I do this naturally?” is you don't. Due to the natural process of aging your organs are in a state of slow decline, specifically your kidneys, which are largely responsible for Uric acid clearance, as well as fluid metabolism which affects the nourishment of the skin – hence the itching ( I get it too, mainly on the ankles and shins).

    Standard recommendation on this forum is to first get your UA level measured so that you can establish an understanding of exactly where you are on the gout spectrum. This is a simple blood test. Secondly, do a lot of reading of past posts on here to get yourself up to speed on the knowledge base as far as possible. The advice you will probably get is to start taking the meds, as this is the quickest method of lowering UA levels, and in view of the list of noxious substances you've been prepared to subject your body to in the past, I wonder why you are reluctant to do this.

    There are, however, a few people here who are trying to avoid drug therapy, mostly through diet. But it is a long, slow process of trial and error with only small gains to be made. My personal recommendation would be to give Chinese medicine a try: acupuncture and herbs. This is usually a therapy of last resort for many people, but it can have remarkable results, especially in conjunction with dietary restrictions from both a Western and Chinese perspective. And, of course, it's totally natural and can even run alongside any other meds you might be taking. The only downside is it's not cheap.

    #7880
    Avatar of trev
    trev
    Participant

    I differ on Odos' view on the worthwhileness of natural cures.

    I had two sequential readings of 4.5 whilst on the Goutcure  'blitz' diet and I wouldn't call that a small gain. In fact, if I just stayed around 6, that would be fine for now -without attacks.

    Further the capsules are made up of herbs like Yucca root and others like aged garlic and you recommend a herbal approach yourself- so I don't get where your view is coming from- somewhat contradictory.

    Most meds, in my view, are potentially noxious- but that doesn't mean one can't take them, even as you recommend them here. In fact ,generally -meds tend to acidity in the body from all I've seen and that's not good for gout, in particular.

    Allopurinol does have a predictable therapy value when needed -but I prefer to try other methods while able to do it with reasonable success.

    #7895

    earthmuzk said:

    Gout and itching. I have been itching on my feet and heels for several months. Sometimes all over my body, feet and hands. Recently I had an extreme gout attack. During that time my itching went away and when the attack stopped, the itching came back. I have tried every cream made, including steroids, hydrocortisone and fungal. I am now convinced that the itching is a buildup of uric acid that is huge. I am 62 and for the last few years have been trying to lose wight by eating a high-protein diet. Now, I am trying to following a low protein gout diet, etc. I am beside myself with the itching tho. Just found out about the baking soda and will try that. Any other suggestions. I have tried Atarax, nerve therapy, etc. I think the solution is to rid my body of uric acid. How do I do this naturally?


    Uric acid crystals can certainly get under the skin, causing psoriasis of varying degrees. Everyone has different sensitivity levels, but the truth is, it may be the gout, or it may be something else.

    We can really help with the gout here, and might be able to give pointers to other conditions.

    It is utterly pointless to discuss the merits or otherwise of different cures, until we know your uric acid levels. As much history and information as possible will give us the best chance to help you.

    As odo says, We start with current uric acid levels and I would also like to see recent history. We develop a plan together. We fix your gout. This may or may not fix the itching, but it will definitely fix the gout.

    #7896
    Avatar of odo
    odo
    Participant

    No, don't get me wrong Trev I'm TOTALLY IN FAVOUR OF NATURAL CURES and agree about the toxicity of meds. I was just trying to present a balanced view to a first time poster. Perhaps I slightly overcompensated for my own bias.

    4.5 on the Goutcure diet is impressive, but if it's not sustainable then surely that's just like losing weight by fasting and putting it all back on again when you begin eating normally? What I meant was that gains are achieved in small increments and require real dedication to maintain.

    I am currently taking a couple of Chinese herbal patent formulas, which are keeping me completely clear of gout symptoms (famous last words) despite regularly recording UA levels in the high 6s and my last test was 7.0. (been a bit cavalier with diet lately and stress levels are high coming up to finals & dissertation deadline looming). So, yes, I am all in favour of herbs regardless of which medical tradition they come from.

    That said, I would also not hesitate to start popping naproxen should I feel the need.

    #7897
    Avatar of odo
    odo
    Participant

    GoutPal said:

    As odo says, We start with current uric acid levels and I would also like to see recent history. We develop a plan together. We fix your gout. This may or may not fix the itching, but it will definitely fix the gout.


    Will go out on a limb here and say acupuncture can probably fix the itching Cool

    #7898
    Avatar of zip2play
    zip2play
    Participant

    High uric acid CAN cause itching directly but it is not likely. BUT indirectly, high uric acid can damage the kidneys and underperforming kidneys can READILY cause itching.

    earthmusck,

    Next doctor visit, when you get your uric acid measured have doc run a liver panel. THe buildup of bilirubin is ALWAYS associated with extreme itching and it is the first marker for liver damage…usually caused by hepatitis. Best to rule out liver problems whenever you suffer long term itching. Is there any yellowing of your skin or eyes?

    #7901
    Avatar of Utubelite
    Utubelite
    Participant

    I have a different experience on itching in the last 7 months that I am taking Allopurinol.

    1. Whenever I have increased the dosage e.g. 150 mg to 200, to 250 and then to 300 mg, I always got itching for couple of days. Few times, it was almost scratching on few spots on skin, which would turn red and then become normal in 2-3 hrs. This is story of my first 6 weeks of Allopurinol.

    2. After I stablized on 300 mg dose almost 5 and half months back, I have seen that every 2-3 weeks, I would experience few heatup sensations in the toe and itching in the skin. I have also taken SUA readings on those days and the SUA levels were on the higher side of my range( Remember my range is 3.2 to 4.8 but on these days, I always got the readings of 4.4 and above upto 4.8)….If I do not include these high itch and sensation days, my SUA levels would be always below 4.

     It has happened at-least 5-6 times, last time it was just a week back. My SUA levels shot up to 4.8….it settled down in 2-3 days. My levels today are 3.6 and 4.0 in the 2 reading I took at home.

    So, I can conclude easily that whenever I have got itching every 2-3 weeks, SUA levels were high and probably reason of the itching….I have no logical reasoning behind it but it is just my personal experience.

    #7902

    odo said:


    Will go out on a limb here and say acupuncture can probably fix the itching Cool


    I know nothing of acupuncture, but my first instinct (actually my raison d'etre in this context), is to fix the G.O.U.T. first.

    #7903
    Avatar of odo
    odo
    Participant

    GoutPal said:

    Post edited 5:05 pm – March 10, 2010 by GoutPal



    I know nothing of acupuncture, but my first instinct (actually my raison d'etre in this context), is to fix the G.O.U.T. first.


    No need to delay acupuncture, as it will not have an adverse effect on any other treatment; in fact, will probably make everything else work much better. I can understand why people might not want to take herbs when starting meds, which is why I only mentioned acupuncture.

    #7910

    odo said:

    No need to delay acupuncture, as it will not have an adverse effect on any other treatment; in fact, will probably make everything else work much better. I can understand why people might not want to take herbs when starting meds, which is why I only mentioned acupuncture.


    Thanks, odo, for setting me off on the gout and acupuncture research path. Perhaps all you need is acupuncture for gout??? I'm still of a mind that this falls into the too good to be true category, but I'm willing to be convinced. I have great respect for a culture that allegedly only pays its doctors when the patients are well.

    Besides, from several comments around these parts, aren't many Western gout sufferers being treated by pricks?Wink

    #7911
    Avatar of odo
    odo
    Participant

    GoutPal said:


    Perhaps all you need is acupuncture for gout???

    Dunno, much depends on the individuals concerned (patient & practitioner) as to exactly how effective it is as a standalone therapy. But I really do believe it has a lot to offer as an adjunct to usual treatment (with or without meds). Anyway, very pleased to see your open minded response on this forum.

    Besides, from several comments around these parts, aren't many Western gout sufferers being treated by pricks?Wink

    LOLLaugh

    Actually, I think on the whole, TCM practitioners are probably no better informed about gout than western Drs. So, if anyone is interested in investigating Chinese medicine I can provide a link to a very good article on the TCM theory and differential diagnosis, which would be worth printing out and taking along to give to the practitioner. I did exactly this and my herbalist was very happy to receive it. It only covers treatment by herbs, but the theory is identical and would be easily adapted for acupuncture by a fully trained practitioner. It would make little sense to anyone else.


    #7916

    Yes please, odo, let's have the link.

    Recently, there has been a sharp rise in the number of research articles published in PubMed related to TCM (Traditional Chinesese Medicine) and similar practices. I have not rushed to summarize these, as they do not seem to me to represent a valid current treatment. Many extracts from plants posess uricosuric and xanthine oxidase inhibiting properties. The extraction process is the crucial part, as most substances are inactive in normal use.

    Lots of scope for new treatments I feel, but also likely to spawn a rash of herbal placebos.

    #7926
    Avatar of odo
    odo
    Participant

    GoutPal said:

     Many extracts from plants posess uricosuric and xanthine oxidase inhibiting properties.

    This is still a Western biomedical mindset (i.e introduction of compounds which block or inhibit x, y & z  so that dysfunctional organs don't have to deal with the problem) which is not the primary way Chinese herbs work, although they may have some of those properties. In a nutshell, the TCM approach is more about restoring homeostasis through tonifying the organs themselves to improve their function, as well as clearing certain pathogenic factors (as understood within the TCM system)

    Lots of scope for new treatments I feel, but also likely to spawn a rash of herbal placebos.

    Which is why it's vital to see a fully qualified practitioner who will work out an individually tailored prescription (herbal or acupuncture or both) rather than buying dubious herbal remedies online


    Here's the link; it opens up a PDF file, if you want to stick it on the GP data base. Just let me repeat: although it does provide a Western overview, it uses terms which will be unintelligable to anyone without TCM training. It is just something which may be of help to your practitioner.

    http://www.tcm-becker.ch/30/do…..dicine.pdf

    #7931

    Cantonese Thank You odo Laoshi

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